Den middels store DAB(+)-tråden

[Haug530D]

48 minutter siden, t06afre skrev:

En annen ting FAKRA er fargekodet med keying. Så du  kan ikke plugge en svart FAKRA plug inn i en grønn FAKRA kontakt. Men det finnes en kontakt "to rule them all" Som er laget for å passe i alle typer kontakter. Water blue type Z. DAB antenner med FAKRA kommer med denne alltid. Så er du derfor sikker på at du har brukt riktig kontakt. Riktig kontakt er "leaf green" type E på din enhet

1308073-3-fakra-rf-connector-system.pdf 137.62 kB · 1 download

Eller no 10 her, om han har "High" versjon, Leaf Green er DAB L og det bruker vi ikke her i Norge.

 

 

Endret Oktober 3, 2023 av Haug530D

[t06afre]

1 time siden, Haug530D skrev:

Eller no 10 her, om han har "High" versjon, Leaf Green er DAB L og det bruker vi ikke her i Norge.

Uff det var ikke bra. Jeg så på pinout i tabellform og blingset. Jeg har nå rettet opp posten og lagt til bilde. 

 

 

[Haug530D]

4 minutter siden, t06afre skrev:

Uff det var ikke bra. Jeg så på pinout i tabellform og blingset. Jeg har nå rettet opp posten og lagt til bilde. 

 

 

Ikke for å pirke men fargen er "Curry Gul" 🤪 og Keying code "K"

Endret Oktober 3, 2023 av Haug530D

[t06afre]

12 minutter siden, Haug530D skrev:

Ikke for å pirke men fargen er "Curry Gul" 🤪 og Keying code "K"

Helt i orden. Jeg lar den feilen stå. Som en påminnelse om å være mer varsom.  

[t06afre]

22 timer siden, Lysken skrev:

Du har montert en tredjeparts DAB-antenne som krever 5-28 volt for å fungere. CIC forventer kanskje ikke å være direkte koblet til antennen, men til en styreboks/antenneforsterker, disse har gjerne flere funksjoner som CIC styrer ved å sende ulike strømstyrker over kabelen (f.eks. bytte mellom bånd).

Mulig løsning? Skaff en original DAB-antenneforsterker som du setter mellom antennen og CIC. Men kanskje ikke så lett å få tak i, bør jo også passe med CIC.

Har du noen ide om DAB III antenne kontakten I CIC leverer phantom power eller ikke. Jeg har ikke TIS adgang til F25. Så jeg vet ikke. Fra bilder jeg har sett av DAB antenne forsterker til F25. Kan det se ut som det er tilfelle. Ingen egen kontakt for power på selve forsterkeren. Har søkt på google men finner ingen bekreftende eller avkreftende info 

[Haug530D]

Her er det som står om antenne Forsterker hva gjelder X3 F25

 

Aerial amplifier and aerial diversity module

Note! The aerial diversity consists of an aerial amplifier and an aerial diversity in the head unit. The component, known as aerial diversity on various wiring diagrams, is therefore only an aerial amplifier.

The transmitter signal received from an aerial is amplified in aerial amplifier and relayed to the corresponding control unit (e.g. receiver audio module RAM) via an aerial line (FAKRA connector).

The aerial system for audio essentially consists of the following components:

• Receiving control unit (head unit or receiver audio module)
• Aerial amplifier (aerial diversity and amplifier)
• Aerials (e.g.rear window aerial, side window aerial, spoiler aerial, roof-mounted aerial)

Depending on the vehicle and the optional equipment, various different aerial amplifiers and various configurations are installed for the aerials.

Functional description

Every aerial amplifier is connected to the downstream device (e.g. receiver audio module RAM) via an aerial line. The corresponding components in the aerial amplifier are supplied with voltage from the downstream device by means of inadvertent power feed via the aerial line.

Note! Inadvertent power feed is an electronics term. Inadvertent power feed means that the device receives its power supply from remote systems (e.g. aerial amplifier) via leads which are actually for the purpose of transmitting the signal. This makes use of the fact that the aerial signal is transmitted as AC voltage. The superimposed direct current voltage supply has no effect on the signal.

The high-frequency electromagnetic waves emitted by the transmitter generate a high-frequency AC voltage of a few microvolts (μV) in the aerial. The signal amplitude is so low that there is a danger of interference during further wired transmission inside the vehicle. For this reason, the aerial amplifier is located near the aerial to amplify the signals. The high-frequency signal is then transmitted to the downstream device via an aerial line.

The design and interior electrical connections of the aerial amplifier depend on the national-market version and the vehicle equipment. One or more aerials are connected to the aerial amplifier. Multiple aerial amplifiers (e.g. B. FM, DAB, TV) can be combined in one housing.

 

Index	Explanation	Index	Explanation
1	Aerial amplifier	2	Signal line for TV signal (TV1)
3	Signal line for DAB signal (frequency range: band III)	4	Signal line for AM/FM1
5	6-pin plug connection for aerials in the rear window	6	Signal line for FM2
7	Signal line for TV signal (TV2)

Maximum possible aerials for the audio system

The following aerials are possible for the audio system. Individual systems may be mutually exclusive (depending on the vehicle and country). There is at least one tuner for FM with the aerials FM1/ AM and FM2 installed. The other aerials are optional.

Note! The correct installation location for the aerials and aerial amplifier can be called up via the hotspot in the diagnosis wiring diagram.

Maximum possible aerials:

• FM1/AM
• FM2
• DAB1 (band III), not US version
• DAB2 (band III), not US version
• TV1
• TV2
• TV3
• SDARS, US version only

Measures to combat EMC interference

Interference due to insufficient electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) can have a negative impact on radio reception. In order to avoid negative influences due to EMC interference, additional components (depending on optional equipment and vehicle) can be installed in the vehicle.

• Wave trap for rear window heating

  The aerials in the rear window are connected to the aerial amplifier by means of a ribbon cable. The rear window heater element is supplied with power via the rear window heater wave trap circuit. The wave traps reduce the transmission of interference pulses in the aerials in the rear window from the vehicle electrical system.

 Example graphic:

 

Index	Explanation	Index	Explanation
1	Head unit	2	DAB L band or SDARS roof-mounted aerial
3	VICS aerial amplifier	4	DAB III band aerial amplifier
5	FM/AM aerial amplifier	6	FM aerial amplifier
7	Wave trap 2, heated rear window	8	Rear Electronic Module (REM)
9	Power distribution box, rear	10	Rejector circuit, rear window defogger
11	Rear window heater and aerials	12	Rejector circuit ground, rear window defogger
13	Telematic Communication Box (TCB), optional

 

• Interference suppression filter for the additional brake light

The additional brake light can transmit interference signals to the aerial system. To prevent this is, an interference suppression filter is installed in the power supply to the additional brake light.

Diagnosis instructions

The downstream devices (e.g. receiver audio module, head unit) have a self-diagnosis function. The devices can detect the following statuses in the assigned aerial system by means of the current flow of the inadvertent power feed:

• Line disconnection of the aerial line from the receiver to the aerial amplifier
• Short circuit to ground in the aerial line from the receiver to the aerial amplifier
• Correct aerial port on the aerial amplifier

 

[Haug530D]

Diversity aerial

A distinction is made between the following systems for the aerial diversity:

• Scan diversity, e.g. in connection with CHAMP (multimedia platform) or CIC (Car Information Computer)

  The aerial diversity with aerial amplifier is a system which automatically switches to the next aerial if the quality of radio signal received on the active aerial is inadequate.

  The aerial amplifier forwards the amplified signal of the radio station received via an aerial line to the tuner in the headunit.

• Phase diversity, e.g. in connection with HU-B (headunit basis) or HU-H (headunit high)

  The system consists of an aerial amplifier and a diversity function in the headunit. The aerial amplifier relays the amplified signals of the radio station received to the headunit via 2 aerial lines. In the headunit the two aerial signals are mixed using the diversity function so that an optimal received signal is generated.

Depending on the series, vehicle equipment and national-market version, the configuration of the aerial diversity module can vary. The aerial diversity may therefore include the following aerial connections:

• FM aerials (UKW)
• AM aerial (MW, KW, LW)
• VICS aerial (VICS stands for Vehicle Information and Communication System; Japan navigation system)
• DAB aerial (frequency range: band III)
• TV 1 aerial

In the US version, the aerial amplifier also supports Weatherband frequencies. Weatherband is transmitted on seven channels in the frequency range of 162.400 MHz to 162.550 MHz. The Weatherband tuner is incorporated in the headunit of the FM module.

Notice! Remote control receiver in aerial diversity! Depending on the series, the remote control receiver is integrated into the aerial diversity. For separate remote control receiver observe the separate brief component description.

Functional description

A distinction is made between the following functions for the aerial diversity:

• Scan aerial diversity

  Up to 4 aerials are in operation for scan aerial diversity. However, only the aerial signal from the aerial with the best signal quality is sent to the headunit via a signal line.

  The aerial diversity with aerial amplifier is enabled by the RAD_ON signal whenever the headunit is switched on. This amplifies the high-frequency signals (HF signals) from AM and FM aerials, as well as the TV aerial (TV1) and the DAB antenna (frequency range: band III)

  The tuner in the headunit detects when a aerial diversity is installed and generates the signal required for the Diversity function on an intermediate frequency (HF) and changeover voltage. The IF signal is a copy of the radio station currently heard on a certain frequency (10.7 MHz). The intermediate frequency is evaluated by the electronics on the aerial diversity. If the system displays that the signal quality of the radio station being received on the active aerial is inadequate in terms of quality and field strength, the system switches to the next FM aerial. The automatic interference suppression of the headunit prevents any audible interruption as the aerials are switched.

  The changeover takes place with the help of direct current voltage. This is delivered by the headunit and is evaluated in the aerial diversity.

  • Direct current voltage = 0 V: AM aerial or FM aerial selected
  • Direct current voltage = 2.5 V: Diversity function enabled

  • Direct current voltage = 5 V: Diagnostic mode enabled

    In diagnostics mode, 8 V pulses are used to change over to the next aerial.

  A number of signals are simultaneously connected on the coaxial line. Reciprocal interference is not possible due to the difference frequencies. Among others, the following signals can be applied simultaneously:

  • HF signal (e.g. 88‐108 MHz) from aerial diversity to the headunit
  • Direct current voltage from headunit to aerial diversity
  • Intermediate frequency (HF=10.7 MHz) from headunit to aerial diversity as a basis for evaluating the quality of the HF signal.

• Phase aerial diversity

  Up to 2 aerials are in operation for the phase diversity.

  The aerial amplifier relays the amplified signals of the radio station received to the headunit via 2 aerial lines. The radio signals are digitised in the headunit. Then the two radio signals are superimposed and added. The radio signals are mixed so the generated output signal has a better signal quality than the best of the individual input signals.

  The corresponding components in the aerial amplifier are supplied with voltage from the downstream device (e.g. headunit) by means of inadvertent power feed via the aerial line.

  Inadvertent power feed is an electronics term. Inadvertent power feed means that the device receives its power supply from remote systems (e.g. aerial amplifier) via leads which are actually for the purpose of transmitting the signal. This makes use of the fact that the aerial signal is transmitted as AC voltage. The superimposed direct current voltage supply has no effect on the signal.

The RCS receiver (RCS stands for Remote Control Services) has a transmitter/receiver module and is integrated in the aerial diversity. This enables bidirectional communication to be established between remote key and/or ID transmitter and RCS receiver. The remote key is the key for the central locking system. The ID transmitter is the key for the central locking system on vehicles with Comfort Access. If the vehicle is equipped with Comfort Access, the vehicle can be unlocked or locked without active use of the ID transmitter and the engine can be started.

By pressing the unlocking or locking button on the ID transmitter, it transmits an encrypted remote control signal. The RCS aerial directs the remote control signal to the remote control receiver in the aerial diversity. The signal is then demodulated, processed and checked in the remote control receiver. That means: The radio signal contains a vehicle-specific constant 'value' which is checked by the remote control receiver. The information is only forwarded via the LIN bus to the Car Access System (CAS) or the front electronic module (FEM) if this constant value is correct. This means: Radio signals from other vehicles' remote keys or ID transmitters (including the same product line) do not cause the bus system to wake.

Authentication of the remote control signal is then carried out in the Car Access System (CAS) or the front electronic module (FEM). If the request is authorised, the Car Access System (CAS) or the front electronic module (FEM) wakes the vehicle and causes the vehicle to be unlocked or locked.

The following graphic shows the aerial diversity using the example of the F01.

Item	Explanation	Item	Explanation
1	Diversity aerial	2	Signal line for DAB signal (frequency range: band III)
3	Signal line for TV signal (TV1)	4	6-pin plug connection for aerials in the rear window
5	Signal line for VICS signal (Japan navigation system)	6	Signal line for the Diagnosis, AM/FM/HF signal, HF signal for Diversity function
7	6-pin plug connection for connection to voltage supply and the LIN bus	8	Earth connection

Structure and inner electrical connection

The aerial diversity is connected to the vehicle electrical system by means of a 6-pin plug connection.

The aerial diversity is switched on via the RAD_ON line and is supplied with a direct current voltage.

The local interconnect network bus connects the remote control receiver to the Car Access System (CAS) or front electronic module (FEM).

The rear power distribution box links the remote control receivers to terminal 30.

The following graphic shows for instance the aerial diversity with aerial amplifier and an integrated remote control receiver.

Item	Explanation
1	Aerial diversity with aerial amplifier and integrated remote control receiver (not illustrated: connections of the aerials in the rear window)

Pin assignments

Pin	Explanation
ANT	Signal line for the diagnosis, AM/FM/high-frequency signal IF signal for diversity function (only scan aerial diversity)
ANT2	Signal line for DAB signal (DAB III)
ANT3	Signal line for TV signal (TV1)
ANT4	Signal line for VICS signal (Japan navigation system)
Kl. 30	Terminal 30, voltage supply for the remote control service
Kl. 31	Terminal 31, ground
LIN	LIN bus
Shield	Shielding
SIG	Signal line for RAD_ON signal (scan aerial diversity only)

Nominal values

Observe the following setpoint values for the aerial diversity:

Variable	Value
Voltage range	9 to 16 V
Internal resistance	6.8 kΩ
Temperature range	-40 to 85 °C

Diagnosis instructions

Failure of the component:

If the aerial diversity fails, the following behaviour is to be expected:

• Fault entry in the headunit

A function check of the aerial diversity can be run using the diagnosis system.

Path: Function structure > Body > Audio > Radio > Radio reception > Aerial diagnosis

A function check of the remote control receiver can be run using the diagnosis system.

Path: Function structure > Body > Locking and security functions > Central locking system > Remote control receiver

 

[Haug530D]

Så Det sendes Strøm ut over antennekabel ja, har egentlig en mistanke om at det kun er NBT som kan kjøre antenne direkte ut fra Fakra via orginal antenne forsterker, mens CIC bruker antenne/forsterker/fordeler, men det er vanskelig å si egentlig ut ifra TIS også

[genax]

Takk for svar!  Skal se hva jeg gjør videre

[t06afre]

1 time siden, genax skrev:

Takk for svar!  Skal se hva jeg gjør videre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS1X_RTKypo&pp=ygUUYm13IGNpYyBkYWIgcmV0cm9maXQ%3D

Denne videon er laget av Saltkjelen

https://bimmers.no/profile/38588-saltkjelen/

Du kan jo sende ham en PM og spørre om han brukte antenne med eller uten phantom power. Fra kommentarene så er det klart at han ikke brukte orginal antenneforsterker 

PS Phantom power er at antenneforstereren i en aktiv DAB antenne. Får spenning gjennom antenne kabelen

[teerex]

På 28.2.2018 den 23.21, kimhaage skrev:

LØSNING:

Mobridge-adapteret var låst i "bypass mode", og sendte derfor signalet rett gjennom boksen uten å sende ut lyd, for å bryte ut av bypass mode så må man skru av og på bryteren 5 ganger. Dette står ikke en eneste plass i anvisninger, nettsider eller noe - fikk info ved å kontakte mObridge Australia. 

 

Hei, denne bryteren med 0 og 1: For bypass mode skal den da stå på 0 eller 1?

Den bryter iallefall strømmen til hvit ledning når den står på 0. Men det har ingenting å si når man kobler den med USB-kabel til PC. Får kontakt via mobridge-programmet uansett.

[teerex]

På 4.1.2020 den 19.04, Otis skrev:

Ettermontering av DAB adapter i E70, med TCU i bagasjerommet, fistune fra kufatec er det som jeg har beskrevet.

Koble deg inn på kabel til TCU. Siden jeg har 677 og før 2009/10 så bruker jeg pinne 17 og 36, dette styres av terminal 30. Med en 5 amp sikring, F136. MOST tas fra forsterker, om den er der, og inn i DAB boksen. Du skjønner det når du står der.

For å rute antennen, jeg brukte ADSC710 fra Funke, så løsner man en skrue som var D-stolpe deksel og bøyer litt i overkant. Mat ledningen nedover fra toppen, det er enklest. Jording er den ene skruen til sete belte guiden bak ett deksel.

Strips, teip eller la være kablene. Legg DAB boksen der du vil, jeg la den oppå TCU med borrelås teip. Funker fint.

Montér sammen. Tidbruk ca 1 time.

 

Skal montere mObridge der bak i E70 LCI, det står ingenting om sikring for 12V i den noe halvhjertede instruksjonen.

Men regner med at 5A skulle være passe? 

Jeg har 2013 med Combox, og 676 så ingen MOST til forsterker liggende der antar jeg (har uansett byttet den til Match UP7).

Det var vel slutt med CDC på den tiden (for f.eks. tilkobling til strøm og MOST). 

Antar jeg henter MOST fra Combox?

mObridge skal kodes inn som satellittradio på min bil (som vel ble standard i CIC på LCI etterhvert).

Men mObridge skal ha konstant 12V (for stasjonslagring?) så får vel hente det rett fra batteriet da?

 

Vedr. mitt foregående spørsmål om bypass switch, så kan jeg delvis svare på det selv nå ☺️

Jeg har altså den nye mObridge-utgaven som kom i 2021 (DAB-G2) som det ikke finnes noen instruksjoner for (fantastisk). Alt jeg finner er fra 2016.

Om det for min utgave også gjelder at man må switche bypass-knappen av og på 5 ganger for å aktivere/deaktivere MOST bypass aner jeg ikke. Jeg har ingen "white dot" på bryteren, men 0 og 1. For sikkerhets skyld står det vel motsatt på bildene under (illustrasjonen samt teksten jeg også etterhvert fant).

 

 

Endret November 14 av teerex

[Otis]

Prøv med 5A først, så ser du hva som skjer.

MOST tar du bare fra TCU/combox ja.